I'm always a fan of when I write about how I played a particular hand and then it turns into a discussion on strategy in the comments. (This is true even when you guys are hammering me for misplaying it.) So I'm going to start trying to break out interesting hands more often into their own post, which will all go under the "Play My Hand" header. This should make for a decent first one ...
This hand occurred during a recent $1/3 NLHE session at Rivers. There were three limpers into a pot -- one sitting early, two sitting in the middle -- and I got to check from the big blind holding 10♦-9♥. I had about $350 in my stack. The others were all in the $200 to $300 range. Players 1 and 3 hadn't been at the table very long but seemed quite solid. Player 2 was a call machine.
Flop came: 10♣-7♣-6♣
So I flopped top pair/gutshot draw, which was nice. But I was out of position against three players and sadly club-less. The question was, of course, bet or check? What would you all do here? Think about it before going onto the next paragraph!
...
Okay, everyone still here? Good. I decided to check. Perhaps that's playing a bit too cautious, but I just hate betting into that kind of flop out of position. Somewhat surprisingly, the other three players all checked behind me.
Turn: 8♦
Okay, I filled my straight. Not the nut straight, but a straight nonetheless. I figured a bet here was no-brainer, since no one seemed too interested in the hand. I bet $15 into a $13 pot. After a moment of thought, Player 1 raised it up to $40. Player 2 folded. Player 3 called. So, yeah ... that was equally unexpected. First thing I needed to do was try to figure out what the other guys were holding or put them on some type of range.
I didn't think Player 1 was holding a bare A♣ or worse, because why would he check the flop with it but then decide to pounce when the turn didn't help him at all but very well could have smashed someone else? Didn't make a lot of sense. He could have slow-played a flopped flush this way. I also thought perhaps he had a nine, too, along with a good club -- like maybe A♣-9♦ or K♣-9♦. (Although those are pretty shitty hands to be limping from early with.) Any other ideas here? Any chance he does this with a turned set of eights?
The second guy, it seemed to me, either had the A♣ or perhaps turned two pair and was hoping to river a boat for a big pot. Those were the most likely scenarios. I suppose he also could have turned a straight. Or maybe he was one of those guys who will just never throw away a straight-flush draw, even if they know they're drawing to a one-outer. With anything else, it's hard for me to justify his call, being that he was between a raiser and the initial better
So how do we feel about these reads? Legitimate? You guys have other options? Can you make the case that Player 1 was bluffing here? Should I have called $25 into what was now a $108 pot to see how the action would go on the river? Ponder it, my friends, and then continue on ...
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I folded. (Told you guys I've been playing very small-ballish since I returned from my poker hiatus.) I wasn't comfortable shoving. And if I just called, it seemed like I'd likely be up against a wealth of draws and/or potentially playing to chop with one of my opponents ... and that's if Player 1 didn't already have a flush! Not a good situation.
The river bricked -- no club, no paired board. Player 1 led out for $80, and Player 3 folded. So, unfortunately, the ending to this tale is going to remain vague and incomplete. (Hopefully, it won't always be that way with these posts.) But I am curious to hear what you guys think. So, if you have some thoughts or advice, I'd be happy to carry the discussion over to the comments ...
4 comments:
I think you have to bet the flop there, just to see where you are if nothing else. Maybe the clubs scare some other folks away. You can't get married to the hand but I think a bet there is the right move.
Afer that, since it was checked on the flop, its harder to figure out what the raiser has. I think I would call, see the river and go from there. If he still bets $80 a call there wouldn't be a bad thing, in my opinion, with you having a straight.
But on the bright side, you may have played it right, and if you didn't, you didn't lose much.
Yeah, ultimately, I wasn't bothered by the hand because I found plenty of other spots this session to get my money in good. But when looking at it by itself in a vacuum, I do wonder if most people would recommend playing the hand more aggressively, as you did, Rob.
I think a bet on the flop is tough because anyone who has anything there is probably going to call, if not raise you, right? Then you probably have to fold or call and hope for no club on further streets. I think a check-call or check-raise might be a better option. Strange that nobody bet the flop. Though if anyone can still easily rep the flopped flush it's you or P1, if you were slow-playing it or hoping to check-raise the flop and didn’t get to since nobody bet out. It’s possible that P3 or P4 flopped the nut flush, but seems more unlikely to check the flop against 4 players. I'm intrigued by this hand because I'm not sure what your thought process should be. Get draws to pay or go the pot control route? I think I’m more pot-control-ish… I'm not sure your bet-fold was the best play on the turn, but it does take away a possibly difficult river call (the pot would be 133 instead of 108 and a river bet might be larger than 80). I'd probably suggest a check-call or check-raise, maybe leaning toward a check-raise as it puts other straights in a difficult spot as you were in(who wants to chop?) and you can get out if you face further resistance. It could also allow a check-check river scenario as anything less than a flush wouldn’t want you to check-raise them again. If it checks to the river you can check-call a bet as a bluff-catcher or possibly check-raise the river as that might be strange enough line to get a 2-pair hand to give a crying call.(depending on who bets out). Another thought I have about this hand is what about raising a hand like 10-9off out of position preflop with 4 limpers? It would possibly at least thin the field, give you the opportunity to win with a c-bet on the flop and in this case be able to bet more confidently on the turn if you desire.
Now that I've read your comment, Fred, I really like the idea of check-calling or check-raising the turn. Should have done one of those instead of leading out (which I guess shouldn't have been a "no-brainer" after all). Thanks for the analysis!
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